"COMPLICATED WOMEN"- INSPIRED EVENT TO BE PRESENTED AT THE FILM FORUM IN NEW YORK

ick LaSalle,who grew up on Staten Island after his family moved to the borough in 1966, is a movie critic for The San Francisco Chronicle.

He recently published Complicated Women (St. Martin's Press), a book that richly describes the strong roles women played in films before the infamous Production Code (popularly known as the Hays Code, after Will Hays, then director of the Motion Picture Producers and Distributors Association) took control and heavily censored the American cinema from 1934 until 1968.

Complicated Women got good reviews in 29 out of 30 occasions, including one recently published by this writer.

New York's Film Forum will have an event from June 4- 28 that will celebrate the films of that era, and Complicated Women served as an inspiration for the project. Mr. LaSalle will then be in New York to introduce a number of the films for the public.

Mr. LaSalle agreed to give me, via e-mail, an exclusive interview, in which he talks about his book, pre-code films, a little of his personal life and about the films he is to introduce in June.

Ernest Barteldes: Mr. Lasalle, according to the information in your book, you are a film critic for The San Francisco Chronicle. It is not stated, however, that you are originally from Staten Island. Could you tell us a little of your background?

Mick LaSalle : Actually, I was born in Brooklyn, but my family was part of the Italian invasion that happened after the Verrazano Bridge went up in 1965. We came a year later, and I went into first grade at PS 13 in Rosebank. Then JHS 49. Then New Dorp, with a five-month stint at Curtis. So I had the SI experience: Clove Lakes Park, Silver Lake, the skating rink, the mall, New Dorp Lane, Great Kills beach, the point, Farrell dances, all that stuff.

Ernest Barteldes:What took you away from the East Coast and to San Francisco?

Mick LaSalle:The San Francisco Chronicle hired me out of grad school. I sent a lot of clips out, and the Chronicle hired me straight out. Actually, The Staten Island Advance wrote me a nice rejection, left the window open a little. We're talking about 1985 now.

Ernest Barteldes: It's been quite a few months since your book came out, and seldom have I seen any negative reviews of it. How do you feel about the feedback from it?

Mick LaSalle: There was only one negative review, but that was from a guy I know who works for a rival weekly here in San Francisco -- enough said. There was a cranky positive review from KIRKUS, and the rest have been enthusiastic -- some fairly, some very, some intensely. The New York Times, Liz Smith, etc. For myself, I was happy with the book. While writing it, I was very worried I couldn't do justice to how wonderful these women were. But after I finished it -- as opposed to when I finished the first draft, which was horrible -- I felt like I more or less succeeded. No book can put you fully in the era or put the movies before your eyes, but I think I helped put these women in three dimensions and gave people a way into this amazing time. Having said that, I still sweated out the reviews. The first review I read, my foot was jumping up uncontrollably. Pretty pathetic. But I've been lucky -- batting something like twenty-nine for thirty. I've seen some great books trashed, too.

Ernest Barteldes: The Film Forum, in New York City, will dedicate a full month to an event based on your book. How did that event come about?

Mick LaSalle :I got in touch with Bruce Goldstein, who was kind enough to write a blurb for the book jacket. He's the programmer for Film Forum -- and the trend setter for repertory in America. And he knows pre-Code. Film Forum had the first pre-Code festivals ever.

Ernest Barteldes: Could you tell us a little about the films you will be presenting at The Forum?

Mick LaSalle : I'm introducing two Shearer movies: A Free Soul and The Divorcee on June 4 and another program later in the week. We haven't settled on it yet. Maybe Strangers May Kiss. Maybe Design for Living/Private Lives or both.

Ernest Barteldes: You once told me that your interest into writing "Complicated Women" came from the lack of books like yours, which leaves me with a question: How did you become so interested in American cinema of the Pre-Code era?

Mick LaSalle :I got interested in old movies. It started with Garbo, who I went insane over when I was 20 years old. But the more old movies I saw, the more I noticed that the ones that had the capacity to surprise were the pre-Codes; whereas with the others, they were so formulaic that you knew fifteen minutes in how they had to end, who had to die, what couple had to get together and all that. So I found the later films boring and the pre-Codes interesting. Also because the pre-Codes weren't censored, I felt like the era was speaking with its true voice, not with the voice of the censor. Because you always know what the censor is going to say, but the true voice is unpredictable.

Ernest Barteldes: I once raised the question that "Complicated Women" focused on a specific kind of public, or those interested (like myself) in films of that era. At the time, you strongly disagreed with me. Now that some time has passed, who has ultimately been the core reading public of your book?

Mick LaSalle: I don't know. When I go to signings, it's all over the map, but mostly women of all ages and gay men.

Ernest Barteldes: Why is that so?

Mick LaSalle: I Don't know, except that female glamour stars of the classic era appeal to a big gay audience. But why that should be I'm not quite sure. I'm one of the few straight male Norma Shearer fans in captivity, for example, and I can understand her appeal from a heterosexual perspective. But for her gay appeal, you'll have to ask a gay fan.

Jack Nichols, editor of GayToday, wrote this reply to the question: 1930s? I'm not sure, but I think all these gay men's icons began at least to appear in the late 30s; They were certainly going strong in the early 40s. Some examples would be Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwick and Hedy Lamaar

Ernest Barteldes:You book, in a way, vindicates Norma Shearer, who, in the past(according to your book ), had been seen as an inferior actress(at least when compared to other actresses). Was there any reaction to your statements ?

Mick LaSalle: James Wolcott disagreed in April's Vanity Fair. The rest -- including people who really know the period -- have agreed with me, it seems. Molly Haskell, who wrote THE BOOK about women in film, From Reverence To Rape , said that I had convinced her. That was a good day.

Ernest Barteldes: You interviewed Miss Loretta Young shortly before her death. In fact, your book actually cites her as "alive and well". How did she feel(if she told you) about your book, then still an unpublished project?

Mick LaSalle: I interviewed Loretta Young in 1998, over the phone, in connection with a screening of her pre-Code films in San Francisco, for an interview in the Chronicle. But I used the interview -- I kept the tape (as one would with someone of her stature) -- and it came in handy when I was writing about her. She wasn't ill when I spoke to her. She was 85 and sounded great -- and don't forget, her mother lived to be 97. I thought Loretta would be around for a long while.

Ernest Barteldes: The new media, the DVD, is bringing back many films that were not so readily available on VHS. For example, a restored version of Billy Wilder's "The Lost Weekend" was recently released in that media. Do you know of any relevant pre-code films coming out in that new format?

Mick LaSalle: A Farewell To Arms, in its restored version, is out. Scarlet Empress is coming out. That should look great. Scarlet Empress was the last pre-Code released. It actually has nudity in the opening sequence.

Ernest Barteldes: There are many classic films that might have had different screenplays had the code not existed. One that comes to mind is "Casablanca". Are there any others(not counting the remakes) which you feel might have been different had the writers' hands not been under control?

Mick LaSalle: Casablanca works because the Code didn't get in its way. It's better dramatically for Ilsa not to go with Rick -- or even have sex with Rick. It works much better for nothing to happen between them but this intense love they can't do anything about. But other post-Codes are wrecked by the Code. There are so many. Any of the women's films, for sure. I saw a Gable-Rosalind Russell movie once, where he's a lovable crook -- and because it was made during the Code, the movie ended with her turning him in! Talk about rotten endings!

Ernest Barteldes: What about Billy Wilder's The Lost Weekend? According to one of the director's biographers, that nice ending is much more different than the novel that originated it. According to that biographer, the ending was to be much darker, but then it would have never passed the censors. Do you agree?

Mick LaSalle: I don't know what the ending was supposed to be, and I haven't seen the movie in many years, so I don't know. But you don't have to go fishing around. They're all different. It's pervasive in American cinema from the late thirties at least through the early 50s. How about Idiot's Delight, an anti-fascist play by Robert Sherwood that took place in Italy -- Joseph Breen(note: the man in charge of enforcing the Code) had it changed so as not to offend Mussolini. Made it an unspecified country. Black Fury, I believe is a movie about a strike. By the time Breen got through with it, it was pro-labor. And on and on...

Ernest Barteldes: I read somewhere that The Best Years of Our Lives (1946, directed by William Wyler) was heavily criticized by the defenders of the Code for not really complying with it.(In it, there is a drunk war veteran, a shattered marriage that ends up in divorce and an illegitimate love affair with a happy ending ), which forced Samuel Goldwyn's hand to re-release the film in the late fifties. Was that a sign of the weakening of the code?

Mick LaSalle: Could be a little. But very little. But The Best Years of Our Lives didn't need to break the code. It wasn't about politics or sex or women. It's about guys adjusting to coming home.

Ernest Barteldes: Did the people behind the Code have any connection with the HUAC, which was also another blow against liberty in American Cinema?

Mick LaSalle: No, but I'm sure they thought HUAC was a nifty idea. Joseph Breen, who ran the Code, was pretty much a reactionary.

Ernest Barteldes: Finally, could you cite your all-time favorite films?

Mick LaSalle: As soon as I stop, I'll think of something else, but offhand: Queen Christina (33), Lady Of The Night(25), Camilee (37), City Lights(31), Flashdance (83),The Divorcee (30), La Belle Noiseuse (91) -- so many, but those are right at or near the top.

Ernest Barteldes
Staten Island, NY
picture credits: all pictures by Ernest Barteldes